this is a topic that should almost be seperated by some idea as to what genre the film within a film belongs to. sunset boulevard is a great film about “old hollywood,” while fellini’s 8 1/2 is a perfect memoir of an auteurist’s concerns. while both revolve around the film industry, they do so in different ways, therefore making a comparison/judgement about which one covers the industry better nearly impossible
as for other films, tom dicillo’s living in oblivion is a smart, somewhat sassy ode to the often perilous world of “indie” filmmaking and truffaut’s day for night is a great film about a director eschewing his native toungue for a more cosmopolitan approach to filmmaking. then there is a film like les blank’s burden of dreams which is a wonderful expose on a filmmaking journey over the edge.
Sunset Boulevard
8 1/2
Living In Oblivion
The Player
Day For Night
Swimming With the Sharks
So many terrific films about film. I think 8 1/2 is tops but there is something for everyone. My second choice would be Mulholland Dr. followed by The Bad and the Beautiful.
Also agree that Living in Oblivion is terrific. If you haven’t seen this film, Netflix it … you will not be disappointed.
The Player I thought was terrific fun, with all those ‘in’ references that were hard to pick out – it is a must see film about Hollywood and Tim Robbins was great. Barton Fink is the Coen brothers attempt at a similar topic, but it didn’t work so well for me, even with John Goodman. Sunset Boulevard I think of as a true ‘film’ noir – not so much as a movie about the movie industry – only aspects of it. The Bad & the Beautiful covers a lot of this same territory and is a good example – a bit over the top. Contempt is a strong and original contender too, with Godard’s unique love/hate affair with the film process. 8 1/2 is just too special for me to label as a film about the film industry, though clearly it is. I’ll stick with The Player as my choice here, of what I have seen (quite a few of those other films mentioned earlier, I haven’t).
The high points all have been hit, so I’ll just add a few unmentioned – some of them imperfect, but biting all the same – that come immediately to mind: Singin’ in the Rain and Sullivan’s Travels (decidedly NOT among the flawed), Blake Edwards’ S.O.B., Day of the Locust, Christopher Guest’s The Big Picture, The Big Knife and Inserts.
Tom-I forgot about Day of the Locust and I just rewatched it a couple of weeks ago.
The State of Things
Dir. Wim Wenders
Winner of the golden lion in one of the many venice film festivals of the past, this film is very interesting in the cinematography, the music, and the theme. Like the cinema of Antonioni, that film expends much time in existential boredom of the characters but it is never boring for us, the images achieve great beauty, the ending is very original and one of the best i have ever seen. The plot concerning a filmmaker is like an static road movie, the wanderings of the characters and many things that we find in the other work of the great german filmmaker Wim Wenders are here. I love this film it is sure one of his best along with Kings of the Road and Alice in the cities, this film is nearly forgotten i hope some day they release a dvd in R1.
The Day of the Locust was one of the few (ostensibly) non-horror movies to give me nightmares. Schlesinger nailed it on that one, I think.
You can have two categories here: metafilm (one that tells its own story) and films about the film industry and filmmaking? 8 1/2 is a metafilm, and Sunset Boulevard would be in the second category.
metafilms in addition to 8 1/2, Contempt and Day for Night:
Adaptation
Peeping Tom
and I guess Ben Stiller’s 2008 film Tropic Thunder can be considered a metafilm too
Contempt isn’t a Metafilm, not in then sense 8 1/2 is, ayway. That is, it’s not directly self-referential. It’s about a film being made, but the film being made isn’t the one we’re watching.
Tropic Thunder is a little closer to the mark, but I think films like Adaptation, that reflect on their own creation, are truly “meta.”
“sunset blvd.” gets my vote. but a lot of these films i still haven’t seen. yes, i must admit, i’ve never seen “8 1/2”. started watching it and didn’t like it immediately, then stopped. i’m not too into late fellini. i love his neorealist period mostly. and i haven’t yet seen “day for night” either. “contempt” is one of my least favorite of godard’s established masterpieces. “the player” bored me, and i was a hollywood insider when i watched it, so i should have loved it. i like “mulholland drive”, but to me, its not really a film about the movies. but then again, you can’t really easily categorize any of lynch’s films.
The Purple Rose of Cairo
The best film I can think of that fits this category is Krzysztof Kieslowski’s Camera Buff. I also think it’s his best film.
Some others I enjoy:
Barton Fink (Coen)
The Bad and the Beautiful (Minelli)
Inland Empire (Lynch)
Intervista (Fellini)
The Last Tycoon (Kazan)
Speaking Parts (Egoyan)
Ulysses’ Gaze (Angelopoulos)
I also loved “The State of Things,” but there’s an earlier film worth mentioning with a very similar story by one of Wenders’ contemporaries, and which may have influenced it: Fassbinder’s “Beware of a Holy Whore,” which, incidentally, brings to mind Bunuel’s “The Exterminating Angel.” Fassbinder’s film is about the making of a movie that suddenly runs aground. Everyone is trapped on the set, so to speak, waiting for the money to come through, and a kind of collective madness slowly takes over.
8 1/2
Hearts of Darkness (Why this landmark documentary about the making of “Apocalypse Now” hasn’t been given the Criterion treatment is beyond me)
The Player
Swimming with Sharks
Get Shorty
The Stunt Man
the stunt man.. good call.
sullivan’s travels? contempt?
i do prefer 8 1/2 though.
Two Weeks in Another Town
Contempt
Symbiopsychotaxiplasm
Goodbye, Dragon Inn
8 1/2
Burden of Dreams
What Time is it There
all of Godard’s films
I thought I should mention “SEX IS COMEDY” – Catherine Breillat
Not the best, but covers an interesting subject – a director’s struggle to complete a sex scene between two actors who hated each other. Almost like a comedy of manners…
There have been so so many. Singin’ in the Rain, great one by Stanley Donen.
Joseph, yeah, in the broadest sense all of Godard’s are about the work process. One film from the 80s that fits even more closely is his Passion. The Polish director does shots where he recreates famous paintings.
Two Weeks in Another Town – Vincente Minelli – very powerful film about a film that is foundering and capsizing because of all the on-set games of sexual roulette and flakiness. Huge influence on Fassbinder’s Beware of a Holy Whore. Good call on David E.
And Noel, absolumment, Sex is Comedy, the making of Breillat’s previous film, Fat Girl. She’s on crutches, she’s not getting along with her vain, immature leading man. She says, “I don’t know why I always do this to myself, I choose them for their looks and then I’m always disappointed.” Ouch. And it just gets worse when the prop guy comes out to attach the fake schlong! The two actors do hate each other and have to feign love or at least lust. Could anything be more blatantly, brilliantly, beautifully fake?
Finally, Irma Vep. Irma Vep fans, let’s discuss this one. Because I have to say I remember its mood and everything quite well, not only her cat burglaries in the black bodysuit but the way the first director goes insane (Leaud) and has to be replaced by one who seems equally nuts (Castel).
@justin yes yes yes… i totally had forgotten about irma vep(insofar as this topic) until you brought it up. the final scene, in which you see the “finished work,” is mesmerizing, and wholly validates the struggle to make it which you see beforehand.
Yeah Troy, that’s a great point. They pull all the chaos together at the end.
8 1/2 and Barton Fink
sadly I have yet to see Sunset Boulevard or Day for Night
I’m probably going to catch hell for this, but I don’t think 8 1/2 is about filmmaking as much as it’s about the women in the director’s life and his obsessive/unhappy relationships with them. Mastroianni could almost be a novelist or an orchestra conductor and it wouldn’t hurt the film very much.
“I’m probably going to catch hell for this, but I don’t think 8 1/2 is about filmmaking as much as it’s about the women in the director’s life and his obsessive/unhappy relationships with them. Mastroianni could almost be a novelist or an orchestra conductor and it wouldn’t hurt the film very much.”
Except that he has that big set sitting right there and he doesn’t know what to do with it. Plus he’s got all these people (actors, producers, etc.) depending on him. Not the kind of problems faced by a novelist/conductor/etc.
My addition to the thread:
(nostalgia)
8 1/2, Adaptation and Sullivan’s Travels are the first three that jump to mind.
On this tip though, does anyone know where I can acquire a copy of Dennis Hopper’s The Last Movie. I’ve heard that might fit this bill…
Hornblende Domingez
I’ve made up my mind Billy’s “Sunset Boulevard” is the best film about the film industry. Wait a sec…now that i think of it, Fellini’s “8 1/2” dives deeper into the depths of the subconscious through Fillini’s mastery of flashbacks and fantasy. Ah! I can’t decide, a simple flip of silver couldent possibly solve this quagmire. What say you? “Sunset” or “8 1/2”? Any other movies about the movies i have disregarded?